AFA crossed the line, in my opinion, during their protest at EDHI last week. They picketed at the local schools. I believe this is inappropriate for many reasons. The first is that they were being aggressive. They were not expected at the schools. If they had made arrangements to visit the schools, they would have been welcomed. I know that because members of DBC had recently toured CID and expressed to me how impressed they were by the school and the kids. Second, at Moog, (you can see it in the video) they approached the kids. It is inappropriate to approach other people's children REGARDLESS of your hearing status! And lastly, this is one sure-fire way to make sure that parents run as far from the Deaf community as possible. You are showing that you are not welcoming, that you are angry, that you do not support our choices for our children. Parents from Miss Kat's school always ask us about how we are treated in the Deaf community and I have always been very open. I have said that in real life, the Deaf community has always been welcoming and supportive. That we are never had them be rude or say negative things about our choices for Miss Kat. (Unfortunately, the same can not be said for online.) But, this is apparently isn't the case for everyone. These people are seeking out opportunities to judge parents for their choices. Instead of being open and supportive, they are protesting against schools that these parents have lovingly chosen as being the best place for their child to learn and thrive, without bothering to ask why. Again, this is the best way to make sure that parents NEVER choose to expose their children to the Deaf community.
So, Miss Kat told me that she saw the protesters outside her school. She said that she asked her teacher why they were so mad. (She said that her teacher said she didn't know.) Miss Kat also said that her principal was scared. (How sad.) And Miss Kat's conclusion was that the protesters were jealous, that they wanted more kids to go to their school instead of her's. She was sad for them.
Here is a great blog from another mother of a child from one of the local schools. She goes over the issues beautifully and I have nothing more to add to it!
http://babyears.blogspot.com/2012/03/deaf-vs-deaf-debate-comes-to-head.html
87 comments:
Too bad they couldn't just tell the kids the truth. . . that they want deaf children to understand that to be bilingual will only benefit them. I had the lies told to me by oralist that signing would hurt my deaf child. I'm glad I didn't believe them.
That is actually not even close to all they want. They want to require that all children use ASL as their primary language, both at home and in school. They want to end parental choice for language modality for deaf children. They want schools that focus on oral education to close and for all children to attend ASL Deaf schools. They want CI manufacturers to go out of business (because they believe that AFA should receive 50% of the CI profits...which is clinical insanity) as well as end early detection and intervention for hearing loss.
Those are all things they actually said to my face at their "rally".
I read babyears' recent blog. It was sure beautiful story. My old co-worker and I had a cordial conversation about the workshop she attended. She went to a "disability" workshop as to require for all the managers to attend, especially, to ensure that they need to comprehend their sensitive needs. Interestingly, the speaker were discussing about the "Surgery" issue and asked them what would they prefer *IF* they face the reality when they become deaf, blind or get an amputee. They raised their hands telling their speaker that they all prefer to getting some help to have a surgery as to what they wish for.
I guess you might miss the deafimages' embarrassing vlog, "Day 2 - Rally at EHDI" via youtube. It's a private vlog but I already saw it before it privately closed. Either without any formal appointments or escorting with the nurse from the hospital, it was about having AFA to unexpectedly enter the children's hospital to take a look at the cochlear implants and surgery. It was purely embarrassing. I don't accept what AFA did at the hospital.
White Ghost
I thought babybears blog was very nicely written. I do agree and do admire hearing parents making the effort to communicate with their child in any form regardless of what language they use. Today society, many parents do not take the time to sit down and talk with their children including English language. Again, it is admirable for the parents to make any effort to learn sign language and/or spoken language with the deaf/Deaf/HOH/CI child because it does take a lot of work to make this happen. What is AFA doing to this issues? It is so baffling and disheartening to see the AFA giving the hearing parents a difficult time including picketing at the two oral schools and their aggressive (belligerent) behavior to walk throught the CI center at St. Louis Children Hospital. I have a very difficult understanding this kind of behavioral pattern. It is too bad that they do not have any respect for hearing parents because it is already hard enough to be a parent to a child regardless he/she (child) is hearing, HOH, deaf, Deaf, CI, and/or other kinds of disabilities. Oh bother!
MKP: Stop lying. I am part of AFA. They wanted the whole access. Primarily, all Deaf children should learn ASL then after that, they can add the means like speech and so on.
Just stop lying. This article is all b.s.
R-
I spoke to the people at the protest. I am sure they have it on tape, they were videoing the entire conversation.
Name a single thing that I said that was untrue?
Ridor, are you actually saying everything that Miss Kat is not telling accurately of what AFA did despite of the video despicting of their actions at those two oral schools and the St. Louis Children Hospital? Those videos are clear evidence of what they have done. Are you saying that is ok for them to step over at the school properties to demostrate their AFA causes? Are you saying that is ok for the AFA to go to the CI center and hope they can "harass" the parents of deaf child(ren)?
Secondly, I do feel offended by the AFA utilizing the signs for oral and listening. For example, signing like a rectangle on the mouth and square box on the ears. Also, it is very well known that AFA is against cochlear implants. Are you attacking Miss Kat because her child has cochlear implants? Is that the sole reason why you are attacking her?
She happens to know sign language, which you should be proud of her as well as her mother. Are you attacking her mother because she is hearing and not Deaf? Are you the parent of her child? Obviously not. So, what makes you decide what is right for her child? Do you take care of her 24/7 hrs/days a week?
The advantage of her child has the ability to utilize different languages regardless of spoken and/or sign language. The more languages she learns, the more knowledge she will have. What is even more, she would be able to help the Deaf and Hearing people together in the long run since many Hearing people do not sign and some of the Deaf people do not talk. She can bridge the gap between. You should be proud of what she can do in the future for your Deaf Culture group.
In sum, I do not understand why AFA have to constantly attack anybody who wants to make changes for the better in their lives. This is where I, finally, draw my lines!
For so many years, I have been supporting the Deaf Culture society and did enjoyed it. Now, I do not because of that attitudes you guys carry. You guys are screaming for help and assistance, but this kind of aggression will backfire, in which, many Hearing and other HOH/deaf/CI will walk away and not assist your AFA's goals. Have to work within the system by starting the base (bottom) of the hierarchy and slowly climb up the "ladder" by educating those people, who are not expose to the Deaf Culture.
It does saddens me that those people, who were actively involve with the Deaf Culture population for many years including volunteering and work-related, had left because of those attitudes similar to AFA. If the organization needs help, then please kind and participate many different activities, workshops, and other events, that are host by the Hearing, HOH, CI, and/or deaf organizations. Learn how to listen and to analyze as well as give some points. Remember, not everybody will agree because everybody is unique.
Thank you.
Hmmm
Ridor said: "This article is all b.s."
Let's see what MKP's post covered...
1) They picketed at the local schools.
It's true. We saw a video that AFA shared.
2). They approached the kids (at Moog school).
It's true. We also saw a video that AFA shared.
I'm confused. I'm not sure which part of MKP that Ridor is insinuating to be B.S.
But, I think he was referring to MKP's comment...
Let's see what MKP's comment said....
1) They want to require that all children use ASL as their primary language, both at home and in School.
It's true. Look at what Ridor said: " Primarily, all Deaf children should learn ASL then after that, they can add the means like speech and so on." So, MKP was right.
2) They want to end parental choice for language modality for deaf children.
It's true. When someone wants ALL deaf children to use ASL first, then parental choice is not considered. Parental choice means, the parents decide. Not hearing people or deaf people.
3) They want schools that focus on oral education to close and for all children to attend ASL Deaf schools.
I have seen statements made by some. Most recently someone shared a comment by a person in the Deaf Community Action FB (closed) page where someone suggested that they work on abolishing oralism and CI.
4) They want CI manufacturers to go out of business (because they believe that AFA should receive 50% of the profits) as well as EHDI for hearing loss.
Again, this is something I also saw and it was something that was shared with me that was on DCA's page.
It looks like perhaps not everyone with AFA are on the same page.
Who knows. But, it's clear that MKP isn't lying.
Since there's a video, I wonder if AFA is willing to share that video showing them conversing with MKP? Should be interesting.
AFA is becoming more and more of a joke and it gets really embarrassing for the deaf community. They are actually hurting the deaf community far more than they are benefitting it because they are scaring away parents of deaf children. Now I'd like to take this opportunity to appeal to hearing parents of deaf children that may read this. Please do not label the rest of us in the deaf community as being the likes of AFA as they are a small fraction of the deaf community, likely even less than 1%.
As for the rest of you, especially Ridor, I had the opportunity to have a long chat with MKP and rest assured, she is telling the truth here. I was at the EHDI Meeting myself and was just astounded to see the number of deaf presenters there, the number of deaf people there and the recognition that ASL had as an option. While I have met MKP before, but at the EHDI, i had a long conversation with her and you all need to know that I have been around the deaf community for around 30 years now and the way MKP was signing to me and our communication flow, there are very few hearing parents of deaf children that have the sign language fluency that both MKP and her husband have.
She has been doing exactly what DBC, AFA, etc wants. She exposed her deaf child to ASL first and now has her child pursuing an additional communication option. and yet they attack her which is quite a joke.
Rest assured that she and her child are proof that ASL does not hinder other communication options and you should actually make her an ally as opposed to attacking her. Just unfortunate that you have not met her to see for yourself. MKP, you have my utmost respect with what you have done with your child and I hope that you continue to share this with other parents, as well as the deaf community.
I just love babyears' latest blog! I kept thinking about her blog almost all day.
Huh, Ridor? If you have a young nephew or niece who happens to have a serious heart condition stays at the hospital for some treatments. He/She was with her patients for some playdates. Would you let AFA unexpectedly invade their confidential play area? The children and your niece or nephew would be terrified of their approaches. It could be considered that it would be the unauthorized visitation. Would you accept that kind of behavior, Ridor?
As for the hospital's incident recently in St. Louis, the doctors and nurses could report to the Child Protective Service (CPS) and they will investigate and summon to AFA. The EHDI will learn about the incident and could kick the AFA out of the conference in the near future.
Since National Association for the Deaf (NAD) CEO Howard Rosenblum involved the AFA protest on the AFA's first day of protest in the youtube video, I no longer support the NAD's cause and will be happy to join Hearing Loss Association of America (HLAA). Good bye, NAD!
NAD, you ought to clean up your act for the sake of the deaf and signing community! Naughty you, NAD!
Ridor, stop lying. You have been doing that since I started v/blogging approximately four years ago.
The process is actually self defeating to get parents to wait until their children are much older for them to develop their listening and speech skills. By then it becomes an almost impossible task simply because the window of opportunity during the first four years of a child's life has basically passed. The key is early intervention. I'd say incorporate early signing, speech and listening developments as earlier as possible, whenever possible. And when the children are old enough they can decide which mode of communication they'd prefer.
Doesn't matter really. Its very common knowledge in human nature. Humans want their leaders to tell them what they want to hear. Good job Ridor to proving the point of the article.
I read Patti Durr's blog, "People of the Eye", title "Wow! and answers to some questions. Patti D. said
"AFA does have a clip of the hospital audiology clinic waiting room area in its video which is still up and open to the public. No children are shown in that room nor any HIPPA materials."
I find it is the most lamest excuse ever I seen! Entering and exploring the Cochlear Implant (CI) Department at the Children's hospital is a full of drama. Leave the CI's Department at any hospitals ALONE! Step down, AFA!
Please watch theholism youtube's video. End of discussion.
Shame on AFA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQn9locAumQ&feature=player_embedded#!
Anoy @ 1:43 PM
Don't forget that The holism's recent vlog that provided the subtitles/captions. :-)
Opps, @ 1:34 PM, the comment that Patti Durr, "A and Q time", NOT "Wow! and answers to some questions" made is at:
http://handeyes.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/q-and-a-time/#comments
Sorry for the confusion.
The problem with the video made at the CI center at the children's hospital in St. Louis with the AFA entering and walking around, even if permission was given, is that their action produces a questionable agenda behind it. No matter how benign or friendly they tried to make it appear. It is their past efforts on protests and demonizing parents and oral centers, their 5 demands, associating AGBell using Godwin's Law, demonizing CI makers, and such are what raise a red flag on their intention. No matter how benign it may have been because the AFA has a serious image problem associating them with extremist thoughts and actions. No wonder EDHI requested security details to protect those attending the convention.
According to the link for Mrs. Patti Durr, it is very ambigious because it does not explain the situation in St. Louis. There are more to the story because it appears that there had been many different events been occurred, in which they have violated some regulations and laws in St. Louis. This does bring up suspicious of them not talking much at this point because their faces had been on security cameras as well as the police had arrived at Moog school. Those actions are very ill-advise as well as inappropriate. There is a good chance that those police will look over those events that had transpired over the past few days. I, surely, hope that those police departments will take action because they should not be doing this since they have been doing this kind of aggressive behavior pattern for the last few years.
I am sure that the parents are becoming more alert and terrify of those people. I know that I would be very concern if my child was approached by strangers at the school properties since there are laws to protect them. For example, from where I am from, we have had strangers approaching to the child(ren) and the police have arrested them eventually.
As for the hospital issue, I surely hope that the hospitals across the country will beef their security up to prevent this issue to occur again. It does not matter if there were child(ren) and/or HIPAA was present or not, it is the action and/or behavior of a certain group going into a specific secton of the hospital. There are so many Hearing parents, who have been attack and/or ridiculed about having their child(ren) getting cochlear implants, would be terrified and shield their child(ren) from those "radical" groups. I hope in the long run it will become safer after catching those individuals, who are causing mischievous behavior toward to those people.
I would like to something that did occur in my area. There was a person taking pictures of the kids from school area. One of the kids told the teacher about it. The person left before they could catch him. At this point, they were looking for him and do not know if they caught him or not at this point. This event was very recent (I think about a week or two weeks ago).
This is similar concept of what AFA was video taping at CID and Moog School. They were zooming at those kids as well as other teachers and/or other adults. This is an issue.
Good evening, MKP. I’m splitting my long comment into several sections.
You just challenged a commenter to name a single thing that you said that was untrue. Well, I can name several, but those are from a comment you made in the comments section.
(I am not going to even bother addressing your post as it’s based on YOUR opinion on an event for which NEITHER of us was present. )
Now, as your comment, I copied and pasted here so that everyone will know exactly to what I am referring. Here it is:
"They want to require that all children use ASL as their primary language, both at home and in school. They want to end parental choice for language modality for deaf children. They want schools that focus on oral education to close and for all children to attend ASL Deaf schools. They want CI manufacturers to go out of business (because they believe that AFA should receive 50% of the CI profits...which is clinical insanity) as well as end early detection and intervention for hearing loss."
Really, MKP?
Here goes my dissection of your comment, piece by piece:
1. "They want to require that all children use ASL as their primary language, both at home and in school.
TRUTH:
“They” want bilingualism, which means to use BOTH ASL AND ENGLISH at home and in school.
English is already legally required for use both in the home and in school, anyway, so everyone in the USA follows this requirement at varying degrees of proficiency. (I’m thinking of immigrants as I type this.)
What “they” want is to simply add ANOTHER language: ASL… and that is when we have bilingualism… bilingual (and, yes, bicultural) education. THAT’S IT.
What’s wrong with wanting Deaf children to grow up bilingual? Nothing!
The problem is this: Many Americans appears to be appalled at the concept of bilingualism, be it Spanish/English or ASL/English, or even any other language. (Look at Newt Gingrich’s attack on Mitt Romney for speaking French)
So I see this xenophobic behaviour towards multilingualism being echoed in EHDI and many states where there is enormous resistance towards ASL as a language that is equal to English.
To be continued...
2. “They want to end parental choice for language modality for deaf children.”
MKM, I’m splitting this sentence into two sections:
a) “They want to end parental choice…”
TRUTH:
Parental choice is an illusion.
The system has ALREADY been stacked in favour of the oralist Listen-and-Speak ideology.
• AVT therapists have been, and continue to be, known for threatening to remove from their clientele list parents who wish to use ASL with their Deaf children. So, many parents either toe the AVT line out of fear, or signs with their kids in secret lest the AVT therapist finds out.
How is that promoting parental choice? This effectively ENDS parental choice in my eyes. Don’t tell me that this doesn’t happen. It does. I have heard stories from parents themselves.
• Slick websites like Communicate With Your Child is set up to encourage parents to go the oral avenue by making it quite easy for parents to find information that are geared towards spoken language only, and making it onerous to find ASL “options”. See my blog post: Parental Choice: An Illusion?... this describes my experience with an audiologist when there was the possibility of MY OWN CHILD being hard of hearing… and “Neutrality: Does it Exist?”
How is this promoting parental choice?
• Parents are told that ASL will harm speech development. Fear is used against them so that they choose oralism and the monolingual way. How is this xenophobic tactic promoting parental choice? It doesn’t.
This is one way to END parental choice while perpetuating the illusion of choice.
to be continued
b. “for language modality for deaf children. “
TRUTH:
ASL and English are NOT language modalities. They are separate LANGUAGES.
There is no such thing as language modality. We have communication modalities, which involve speaking via the mouth, and speaking through the hands. That’s TWO modalities here.
The implication inherent in “language modality” is that ASL is derived from English, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Linguists have proven that ASL is a bona fide language with all linguistic features such as morphemes, phonemes, grammar, syntax and structure. Parameters (which are the building blocks) are the handshape, location, movement, palm orientation and nonmanual grammar signals/markers.
English has its own morphemes, phonemes, grammar, syntax and structures. Its building block is the alphabet letters (vowels and consonants)
The battle of communicative modality is on. So far, the system is stacked in favour of the speaking via the mouth modality. Despite the fact that linguists have proven ASL to be an actual language, EHDI and other medical/educational professionals keep demoting ASL to a mere communicative option and a mere modality.
More to come... have patience...
4: “They want schools that focus on oral education to close and for all children to attend ASL Deaf schools. “
Truth:
There is no such thing as ASL Deaf schools. But, there is such a thing as BILINGUAL Deaf schools.
No School for the Deaf has ever removed English language curriculum from their programs. ALL schools in the USA (and Canada) are required by law to teach English to ALL children, regardless of their hearing level. There are bilingual-bicultural school programs such as the ones in Fremont and Riverside, and Indiana School for the Deaf, for example. They all teach both ASL and English.
It is interesting that people demonize schools for the Deaf for promoting ASL even though they do teach English. By contrast, schools that focus solely on oral education are NOT criticized for their exclusionary practices. This is even though the buzzword in education these days is “INCLUSION.” Scratching my head.
5: “They want CI manufacturers to go out of business (because they believe that AFA should receive 50% of the CI profits...which is clinical insanity) as well as end early detection and intervention for hearing loss."
Truth:
Accountability is desired for CI industries.
Once the children are implanted and old enough to enter the school system, there is NO tracking of their educational process and whether the CI truly benefit them (and I am not talking about your own child, MKM).
Poster children are being touted all the time, while there is a large number of Deaf children with cochlear implants struggling with a lack of language skills and with a watered down curriculum because they are perceived as “special needs” in the schools with so called “LRE”… least restrictive environment…
Ironically, the least restrictive environment for Deaf children is right in the bilingual-bicultural schools for the Deaf. Yet, schools for the Deaf are labeled MRE (Most Restrictive Environment), thus they are to be utilized only as a last resort. By then the Deaf children are transferred to schools for the Deaf with baggage that require cleaning up.
I have looked, but I am unable to find information at the AFA website that states that the organization wants CI manufacturers to go out of business. Show me that specific quote by the AFA itself. Hearsay does not do it for me, MKP.
6: …“(because they believe that AFA should receive 50% of the CI profits...which is clinical insanity)…”
This statement is partially true. I agree that this is clinical insanity… BUT that is the only part you and I agree upon.
Truth:
AFA has not asked for profits for itself. Rather, AFA has asked for transparent and equitable funding for bilingual resources and program development. See this excerpt from the AFA website itself :
“1. Equitable funding .AFA calls upon EHDI, CDC, NIH, and US Dept of Education to address the historical and contemporary inequality of funding by increasing funds for bilingual (ASL and English) materials, early educational programs, Deaf mentoring programs, and services to parents. Equitable funding should be transparent.”
Again, show me where AFA asked for CI profits for itself.
7: “They want to…end early detection and intervention for hearing loss."
There are two truths that counter this last statement.
TRUTH:
AFA wants to end the bias in EHDI FOR listening/spoken ONLY ideology that outright rejects ASL.
EHDI has an incredibly HEAVY bias that supports the oralist monolingual “choice”, which is spoken English ONLY (Listening and Spoken Language) and excludes ASL for the most part.
I know for a fact that abstracts submitted by Deaf professionals for the St. Louis EHDI conference have been turned down because those abstracts had ASL in them.
A Deaf professional (teacher) informed me that EHDI organizing committee told her that it was because she included ASL in her abstract when she explained the purpose of her presentation.
How can anyone tell me that there is true parental choice, given the evidence that information on ASL is constantly filtered by professionals who subscribe to the listen-and-speak-ONLY ideology?
TRUTH:
AFA wants the inclusion of Deaf stakeholders in EHDI leadership positions so that ASL as a language and Deaf culture are well-represented.
Historically, Deaf people have been excluded from decision making processes that impact the education and lives of Deaf children for the past 130 years. See International Congress on Education of the Deaf 2010 New Era document and Accord.
Please see the rest of the 5 demands given by AFA in its December 30, 2011 post which states the following:
“3. Stake Holders in Leadership positions.
AFA calls upon EHDI to hire Deaf people who use and support ASL/Deaf Culture in leadership roles at national and state levels.
4. Full Disclosure.
Audiologists should be required to explain the four international documents and their positions on the language and cultural rights of Deaf people. Also, they need to explain the recalls (both voluntary and involuntary) and risks associated with cochlear implants and Audio-verbal Therapy (AVT) programs.
5. Confidential Information and Genetic research.
AFA calls upon EHDI to guarantee that information about Deaf children and their families will not be used for collecting genetic information beyond consults with the families. EHDI will not support financially nor in terms of information sharing any research related to genetic engineering.”
When one reads the demands, one is left with the indelible impression that AFA was most definitely NOT asking to end early detection and intervention for “hearing loss”.
Where does it say that AFA wishes to end EHDI? Please show me. Again, hearsay is not evidence.
I believe that the challenge you threw out to prove that you said a single untrue thing has been more than met.
Have a very good evening. Thank you for your patience. I believe I outdid a certain longwinded blogger.
@Shei,
"English is already legally required for use both in the home and in school, anyway, so everyone in the USA follows this requirement at varying degrees of proficiency. (I’m thinking of immigrants as I type this.)"
That statement is half incorrect and half correct. First of all, it is not required by law for the children and/or adult to speak and/or write English in the home environment because it is a private matter, not a public matter.
Second of all, all institutions with exceptions with few do not have to follow such as mosque, churches, and other facilities in USA does require spoken and/or written English language by law. It is acceptable to have any second language such as Spanish, ASL, or other forms of "communication" as additional to English language.
Lastly, everybody develops English differently regardless of Hearing, HOH, CI, deaf, and Deaf Culture population. Some kids will pick up faster and others will lag behind. This is why it is a very complicated issue to decide which methologies will work for a certain group of people including the Deaf Culture because each individual learn differently especially from diverse backgrounds. In sum, everybody is different and unique.
Where did it say that they wanted 50% of the profits?
They said it to my face. That is where I am getting that information, from the protesters themselves.
It appears that the last part of my comment wasn't posted, so here I go...
6: …“(because they believe that AFA should receive 50% of the CI profits...which is clinical insanity)…”
This statement is partially true. I agree that this is clinical insanity… BUT that is the only part you and I agree upon.
Truth:
AFA has not asked for profits for itself. Rather, AFA has asked for transparent and equitable funding for bilingual resources and program development. See this excerpt from the AFA website itself :
“1. Equitable funding .AFA calls upon EHDI, CDC, NIH, and US Dept of Education to address the historical and contemporary inequality of funding by increasing funds for bilingual (ASL and English) materials, early educational programs, Deaf mentoring programs, and services to parents. Equitable funding should be transparent.”
Again, show me where AFA asked for CI profits for itself.
7: “They want to…end early detection and intervention for hearing loss."
There are two truths that counter this last statement.
TRUTH:
AFA wants to end the bias in EHDI FOR listening/spoken ONLY ideology that outright rejects ASL.
EHDI has an incredibly HEAVY bias that supports the oralist monolingual “choice”, which is spoken English ONLY (Listening and Spoken Language) and excludes ASL for the most part.
I know for a fact that abstracts submitted by Deaf professionals for the St. Louis EHDI conference have been turned down because those abstracts had ASL in them.
A Deaf professional (teacher) informed me that EHDI organizing committee told her that it was because she included ASL in her abstract when she explained the purpose of her presentation.
How can anyone tell me that there is true parental choice, given the evidence that information on ASL is constantly filtered by professionals who subscribe to the listen-and-speak-ONLY ideology?
TRUTH:
AFA wants the inclusion of Deaf stakeholders in EHDI leadership positions so that ASL as a language and Deaf culture are well-represented.
Historically, Deaf people have been excluded from decision making processes that impact the education and lives of Deaf children for the past 130 years. See International Congress on Education of the Deaf 2010 New Era document and Accord.
Please see the rest of the 5 demands given by AFA in its December 30, 2011 post which states the following:
“3. Stake Holders in Leadership positions.
AFA calls upon EHDI to hire Deaf people who use and support ASL/Deaf Culture in leadership roles at national and state levels.
4. Full Disclosure.
Audiologists should be required to explain the four international documents and their positions on the language and cultural rights of Deaf people. Also, they need to explain the recalls (both voluntary and involuntary) and risks associated with cochlear implants and Audio-verbal Therapy (AVT) programs.
5. Confidential Information and Genetic research.
AFA calls upon EHDI to guarantee that information about Deaf children and their families will not be used for collecting genetic information beyond consults with the families. EHDI will not support financially nor in terms of information sharing any research related to genetic engineering.”
When one reads the demands, one is left with the indelible impression that AFA was most definitely NOT asking to end early detection and intervention for “hearing loss”.
Where does it say that AFA wishes to end EHDI? Please show me. Again, hearsay is not evidence.
I believe that the challenge you threw out to prove that you said a single untrue thing has been more than met.
Have a very good evening.
Shel
MKM,
As for your getting the info re; wanting 50% from the protesters... are you certain you got that info correct? Are you certain that it isn't a misunderstanding?
I have NEVER heard of that from anyone, from AFA or otherwise.
I know that it was said that CI profits would have been better distributed to develop resources for bilingual education of Deaf children instead of on iffy propositions such as oral education where results are NOT guaranteed. You and I can easily argue this all night, all year, MKM....
Based on my experiences, both within education and without, I have not seen a single Deaf individual who failed to acquire language when in a bilingual-bicultural education. However, I have seen many Deaf adults (and children) struggle after having been in oral settings (in mainstreaming environment, self-contained class or elsewhere) to acquire a full language. With the result that there is a serious increase in mental health issues long term. Statistics is in.
For that info, you might want to check Canadian Hearing Society. They would likely have that information on their website. This may prove an eyeopener for you, and explain why so many Deaf people are speaking out these days.
Shel
They want the language of communication in school and home to be ASL. No one can dispute that.
Parental choice is not an illusion. I chose ASL as my child's first and primary language, others chose different. It is an insult to all informed parents to say otherwise. We are making the choice we believe to be best for OUR child.
And some people DO chose "language modalities" for their children. Just because you think the choice is "oral vs bilingual", those aren't the only options. Parents might choose SEE, or cued speech, or even the Rochester method! You might not like the phrase but it is apt.
Are you insinuating that I didn't understand the conversation because it was in ASL? You are quite wrong. AFA has it on tape, because I watched them video the conversation we had.
I wrote "ASL Deaf school" because there are oral deaf schools, schools that utilize SEE, and others that use Cued Speech. I wanted to be clear which kind of school I was talking about. As for them not wanting to close oral schools...they say that they want the schools to change to ASL as the language of communication and 50% Deaf teachers, which then means it is no longer an oral school. Split hairs if you want, but the goal is the same.
I find it highly ironic if not completely hypocritical that the AFA was willing to take profits from the cochlear implant industry considering the fact that AFA is connected to DBC and Deafhood Foundation in more ways than one who are generally against cochlear implantation.
MKM,
I suggest that you re-read my comments... all of it. I am not the one splitting hairs here.
It is clear that you are close-minded to different perspectives, especially those of bilingual people like myself.
I have NEVER had ASL-ONLY education, and I know of NO ONE, past or present who has ASL-ONLY education... ALL OF US has had to learn English.. ALL our children in North America have to learn English, regardless of the programs they are in.
There are NO ASL-ONLY schools. Your definition does not wash with me.
SEE, CUED SPEECH, and others are MODES OF COMMUNICATION... designed for English-ONLY education. See? Monolingualism is alive and well. These support oralism.
That's the problem with folks with monolingual mindsets. I see them raising alarm about ASL bilingual programs and the possibility that they would do away with oral education.
Yet I have NOT SEEN ONE OF YOU people raising the alarm about oral ideologies closing down bilingual-bicultural programs that use ASL/ENGLISH.
Talk about bias!
What a pity.
Shel..
You need to start paying attention to parents who run far away from folks like you so you can understand why they run from you.
Trying to emphasize on ASL/English is getting old. They know.
MKP knows ASL, she uses them, her daughter knows ASL too.
Parents only want to be given information on everything so they can make the decision for their child. Parents usually end up doing their own research and yes, they do learn lots about ASL/English, aka, bilingual-bicultural. And, then they meet up with these folks either online or in person and then they run far away from deaf culture and you wonder why? Is it because of ASL/English? No. Think again.
Chill out, Shel.
You need to learn how to approach parents in a better fashion.
Did you check out the link above in MKP's post? That parent had the SAME perspective as well with what happened at St. Louis too.
These two parents are not the only ones who feels this way.
What some readers may not realize is that what an organization states on its website as its mission and/ or goals may not be fully espoused by some members of the very same organization. Some members are unable to leave out their personal bias and perpetuate perceptions of the organization that don't reflect that organization's mission/ goals. Some even perpetuate a hidden agenda that confuse the general membership.
If recent history is anything, one will find this has happened with DBC, AFA, Deafhood Foundation and other organizations. Some ppl would also say that some AGBell members do the same thing of insinuating their personal bias as same as AGBell's, even though AGBell itself would not endorse such views.
Saying it to your face is one thing, and saying it differently on an organization's website is another. The fact that AFA recorded the conversation with you is an interesting turn of events-- has AFA published such record?
When there is this kind of inconsistency, one has to wonder, who's telling the truth-- the organization or the individuals who spoke their minds in private?
In addition, one has to wonder what the heck was AFA doing protesting with "Sign language for deaf babies" written signs at the hospital and at the Moog school? I thot "sign language for deaf babies" was DBC's mission, not AFA's-- AFA claims its mission is to fight audism. Or, have such distinctions blurred?
Ummm, makes for a lot of confusion about who's doing whose job.
Ann_C
And, Shel..
You are insulting the intelligence of everyone here with this ASL/English emphasis.
English is REQUIRED in all school regardless.
Do you really think parents think that ASL only schools means ASL only and no English?
Don't insult them, please.
English is required in ALL schools in America.
There is no need to add English here.
English has always been required in deaf education for EONS.
Geez.
Sigh...what's big deal? People are not buying the bs. Whatever. Let's move on. Either proponents are rolling their sleeves like used car salesmen telling tales about nothing. Rush Limbaugh did a good job extracting personal CI stories, remember?
Ann C and Candy. Good to see you two again.
Candy, YOU chill out and re-read my comments, especially re; the filtering of information by professionals.
I noticed that you had absolutely NOTHING to say about Deaf professionals' abstracts being turned down because they had ASL in them.
Sigh. Candy, instead of scolding me re: my approach to parents, you might want to think on the points and issues I raised.
I realize that there is no point in debating you since you will NOT look at things from my perspective. Therefore, this is the last time I will comment here on this topic.
Auf Wiedersehen.
Let's not have this commentator's comment be lost in this thread..
Anonymous on March 10, 11:08 stated:
"I had the opportunity to have a long chat with MKP and rest assured, she is telling the truth here. I was at the EHDI Meeting myself and was just astounded to see the number of deaf presenters there, the number of deaf people there and the recognition that ASL had as an option. While I have met MKP before, but at the EHDI, i had a long conversation with her and you all need to know that I have been around the deaf community for around 30 years now ..."
He was there!
He signed with MKP!
He's been involved with deaf community for 30 years!
He was there. Ridor wasn't. Shel wasn't. I wasn't. He was.
Hello All,
I just want to be able to clarify one thing. It's about NAD. Howard was seen mingling with AFA, and it was unofficial. He was not representing NAD at that time. He was there at EHDI as one of the presenters. Unfortunately, a lot of us see Howard we also see NAD, but I just feel the need to come in here to clarify the misinformation.
NAD sent a good letter to EHDI asking to work together. That was an effective approach.
Just saying.
Shel-
If your points were up to date and accurate, they would be good points. The problem is that they are not wholly correct.
The AFA protested at my son's school and had the nerve to actually approach the children and staff there. I've seen the video footage where they were laughing at the school and its employees.
Here's the problem with that: the school they chose to protest has NEVER said I can't sign with my son. HE SIGNS!! He knew ASL before we ever started working on speaking with him. We, as his parents, did every single thing the AFA, DBC, etc. are asking. THAT SCHOOL SUPPORTED OUR CHOICES!!! That school has held our hands and walked with us down the path that WE CHOSE for our sons. They may not have agreed with our every choice, but they honored it and supported it. They never EVER threatened to pull his AVT, told us he wouldn't speak or anything else.
Do you know who DIDN'T support our choices? The people who went to my son's school and protested. They crossed a line. They laughed at the children and teachers there, took pictures of themselves in front of the school's signs, and gave themselves a big fat high five on their FB page. Now you tell me. As a parent, would you choose the organization that supported you or the one that mocked you and terrorized your three year old child?? It's a no brainer!
Here's what it comes down to. You can protest the schools, you can belittle EHDI, you can post the hideous posters of babies with drills to their heads, you can do all of that. NONE of those organizations make choices for my child. I DO! And so does every single other parent trying to raise a deaf child. Scare tactics and radical behavior makes parents like me want to turn and RUN from people like the AFA and their twisted ways.
The AFA owes a huge debt of thanks to the other Deaf people out there who set the right example and are accepting of our choices no matter what they are. They are the one and only reason I continue to allow my children to have any affiliation with the Deaf community.
Wake up, AFA and affiliates! If your goal is to open parents' minds to the idea of Deaf culture and bi/bi, your tactics are yielding the exact opposite results. We are turning and running the other direction because we have seen your behavior and want our children to be NOTHING like you.
Aimee, good post.
AFA was invited by EHDI to participate in the conference.
AFA turned the invitation down and decided to protest instead.
They chose the other fork in the road, the one that went nowhere.
Ann_C
Shel,
Its obvious you do not know the whole story, AFA may tell you one thing, but actually do something else. Case in point, before the EHDI Meeting, AFA gave a presentation at the deaf club in St. Louis where they stated that ASL needed to be added as an option. But at the rallies, they threw that out in its entirety and stated that ASL is THE option as if it should be the only option chosen and nothing else. AFA was give every opportunity to participate in the meeting by registering and they chose not to.
I understand your desire for deaf babies to learn ASL and the like and only wish that you were at the EHDI Meeting yourself, cuz rest assured, if you were there, you would be giving a different perspective here because you'd see with your own eyes that EHDI was all about respect for all communication options, including ASL.
Okay.
Coming here, my feeling is just exactly how hearing parent(s) feel when going over the side where Deaf people are.
But, that should not deter me from trying to collaborate with each other on this matter, the one and only goal, that is working together on understanding and supporting each other when it comes to what's the best for our Deaf babies/children.
Personally, the idea of AFA going over to the schools and hospital did not sit well with me. However, let's not dwell on this. Every organization has their mission for doing something it believes in. Some shocks us. Some pleases us. This is America.
Let's move on to something much more productive. That's continuing our mission on best serving our Deaf babies and children.
Perhaps some of you, the readers, may think I'm doing this to appease parents. Well, I know for the fact that parents are the FORCES, and powerful one when it comes to our children's education. I understand that. I do.
I'm a Deaf Mom of four, all deaf and I'm an educator by profession. I've worked with parents of Deaf babies and children for 8 years. I have seen enough for say that our education system clearly needs some collaborating work to do. There are too many options for parents. We all need to understand the difference between modes of communication and authentic languages that have been imposed and used by the system.
Shall we try to bring in the gap together?
I love the idea of collaboration and working together. That's why, as parents, my husband and I taught ALL of our children sign language.
The thing is this; I can't NOT dwell on the fact that these people protested my son's school. I don't know who these people are or what they're capable of. They mocked him, mocked the people who he learns from and loves, and left me feeling as if my child's safety and respect for his rights to learn were totally violated.
Don't dwell on it? As his parent, it is my absolute responsibility to dwell on it and to make things right for him.
Aimee has a point there, as I too, would feel quite violated if I had a child at the school when these protesters did what they did. What makes this even worse as that they chose to ignore an offer to be a part of the solution by coming forth as a stakeholder.
This is what the EHDI sent out before the Meeting and I will copy and paste it.
Subject: Possibility of Demonstrations at St Louis EHDI Meeting
In just a couple of days we will all be meeting in St. Louis for the 11th Annual National EHDI Meeting. You may have heard that people from Audism Free America, the Deaf Bilingual Coalition, andDeaf Rally 2012 will be gathering near the St. Louis Union Station Marriott to protest what they don’t like about EHDI programs during the time we will be meeting to discuss how to improve EHDI programs. As long as they do not disrupt or interfere with the activities of the EDHI Meeting, what they are doing is completely legal and appropriate — and I think we should all support their right to do it. In fact EHDI will be improved if we know and understand their concerns. It would be even better if they would register for the Meeting and join the discussion, because EHDI will be stronger if we have all the stakeholders at the table and everyone is working together to make EHDI programs better. Even though they have chosen not to do that, it is important that we all treat one another respectfully. Everyone has valuable information to offer.
You should know that some of what has been posted on their websites, blogs, and Facebook pages has been angry and, as of late, even threatening. Because of those statements, some people who are registered for the EHDI Meeting have asked me if I think it will be safe to attend. My answer is that we are doing everything possible to ensure everyone’s safety and comfort. With assistance by experts on meeting security, the organizers have developed a detailed response plan for various potential disruptions. The plan has been finalized with input from the staff and security department at the Union Station Marriott and the St. Louis Police Department.
It is sad that we need to spend our time and efforts dealing with the possibility that a few people might act in ways that are disruptive and disrespectful. At the same time, we should always remember that it wasn’t very long ago, and in some cases is still true today, that people who are deaf or hard of hearing have not had equal access, equal opportunity, or equal consideration in so many different areas. EHDI programs have the opportunity to contribute to positive change in that area and everyone’s help is needed to accomplish that goal
The EHDI Meeting attendees will be the only group in the hotel from March 4-6. Because the hotel is private property, people who are not registered for the EHDI meeting will not be allowed in any of the hotel’s meeting space during this time. To help ensure the safety and well-being of all Meeting participants, please wear your name badge at all times. Please be responsive to and understanding of the extra hotel security staff and police who will be onsite during the meeting. Finally, if you notice anything that is suspicious or disruptive, please immediately inform one of the meeting staff members (who will be wearing black polo shirts with an EHDI Meeting logo and will have a name badge with a ribbon that says STAFF). Do not try to intervene yourself.
I am eagerly looking forward to the EHDI Meeting and believe it will be the best meeting we have ever had.
Best Wishes,
Karl White
The door was opened to them and they slammed it shut and its quite embarrassing to me as a deaf individual and I'm quite grateful to see that many of these parents are not shutting us out or putting us in the same category as those close-minded radicals that obviously do not believe in the power of collaboration.
Aimee,
I will take the burnt for what AFA did although I'm not part of this grassroot organization. I apologize for what this group of people did to your son's school. It's rather embarrassing for the rest of us who share the same dismay as the rest of you feel.
It's important for me that you understand that not all "D" deaf people are like that.
However, of course, what had happened at your son's school was uncalled for. I came here to validate your feelings. And, others' too that share the same sentimentals.
But, we should not dwell on this because that's going to deplete our time and energy over something that is not worth of our time.
All the best.
Dawn,
Sigh. NAD is representing the D/deaf community. Howard Rosenblum KNOWS that AFA is a grassroot organization. I never seen ANY of CEO person to join the grassroot organization. That's the troublesome.
Since he mingled with the AFA protestors on the first day of EHDI conference, he WOULD have approved of AFA's actions for visiting Hospital and Schools. He WOULD have approved to have several videotapes/pictures of the children playing while AFA protesters talked with a staff at Moog Center. WiscDeaf has a good point about the videotape/picture of children WITHOUT Moog Center's/parents' permission. AFA is facing a huge trouble. Moog Center is trying very hard to protect the children from the spotlights for the parents' sake. They don't deserve to receive some unexpected visitors to take some pictures/videotapes of them (children).
NAD CEO Howard Rosenblum needs to take an action against AFA. They need to reprimand AFA for taking a videotape of children at Moog Center and entering Hospital without any formal appointments or unauthorized visitation.
Howard R.needs to apologize to the EHDI and D/deaf community for appearing the AFA's protest at the EHDI conference since he/NAD sent really nice letter to the EHDI for accepting to work together. They failed to do that! He also needs to admit that joining the AFA's protest is a mistake.
Lastly, I surely hope that EHDI is beefing up the security for the hospital and oral schools for the coming conference in Arizona.
AFA is connecting the DBC and Deafhood Foundation (DHF). They are not part of the d/Deaf community.
White Ghost
White Ghost,
I understand everything you say to the T.
Unfortunately, Howard was seen mingling with the AFA protesters. That did not help, I agree. But, however, I can validate by saying this. It was done on an unofficial representation. But, I know my saying this does not faze any one of you here. I just want to clarify this.
About visiting the school, I am totally with you on this one. I wasn't happy when I saw the video as well as comments in the tweets and Facebook. I was totally dismayed about this. I am a mother, too and I would not have liked if someone came to their school and did what AFA did. I even had spoken up about this. People on my Facebook list knows how mortified I was about this. I support a peace rally, but going to the school and hospital ends with me. I even encouraged my friends to withdraw their support for AFA, just like those advertisers for Rush Limbaugh. That's a community accountability that I'm doing. Doesn't that count for something?
And, one more thing, I can tell you this for sure, NAD does NOT support what AFA did by going to schools and hospital. I had a talk with one of the NAD Board myself. He was deeply disappointed with AFA. He is going to address this with the rest of the NAD. We are doing SOMETHING about this. Give us time to gather information and address this in a timely manner.
I hope this is the place where everyone can feel safe by sharing their feelings and thoughts and be able to come up with something bigger and better instead of continuing to discuss this to the end of the world. I am not brushing off your feelings or thoughts. I'm validating your feelings.
You are right that AFA is connected with DBC and DHF. People of these organizations are my least favorite. If you have known me while back, you'll see how much I diss them. I have expressed how they are hurting parents and that they are doing a huge demise of Deaf community. I know that. But, please understand that not all D deaf people are like that.
Thanks for your time reading this.
In all fairness, it is possible that Howard may have mingled with them to learn more about why they were doing what they did. If he were holding up one of their signs and the like, that is one thing, but it did not appear that he did that. Additionally, i can pretty much tell you that he would not support going to schools and hospitals the way that the did.
Hello, I am Karen Mayes, a graduate of CID in St. Louis and my family still lives there. I have FOND memories of CID; it was my second home. St. Louis rocks, especially with its City Museum and St. Louis Zoo :-D
Anyway, my heart breaks when I read the parents' blogs, sharing how they felt when they observed AFA's actions in St. Louis. When I first saw the videos released by AFA, I immediately put myself in your shoes. I am a PARENT first, and I KNEW how you'd react, so I don't really blame MKM and Aimee's emotions. And very disappointed and embarrassed in AFA/DBC/DHF (I was never involved in any of those organizations, even though I agree with a FEW of the CONCEPTS--I don't agree with how the organizations are run... nothing more.)
These organizations have again and again shown the lack of political awareness, fore-planning, the ability to think of the possible consequences if they make this decision and that decision, the ability to stick to their missions... and especially to me, the failure to put themselves in the shoes of their targeted audiences. Their awareness of media is lacking as well. So, I am on the same page with you the parents of children who attend CID and the Moog Center...especially when a few walking right up to the school building and inside the hospital. I don't blame you at all.
I need to speak up for Shel and Dawn... they UNDERSTAND where you are coming from. They are educators by profession and they bring their unique perspectives, having nothing to do with d/Deaf identity politics... it has to do with the language development... more importantly, the enrichment of the languages for d/Deaf children. The goal is to ENRICH... not take away... the language development.
I have 2 Deaf kids. One has a CI and loving it. Another, hearing aids, and loving them. They go to a bilingual Deaf school. Yes, my son is part-time mainstreamed for a few classes. Yes, they talk very well (better than me, ha.) Etc. As we ALL agree, the key to the success is the parental involvement.
Again, I apologize for the actions of AFA/DBC/DHF... I can only hope that they regroup and have to agree that a few things have to change... start thinking of people outside of themselves.
Best,
Karen
Dawn,
Thanks for the prompt reply. As for Howard R., it does not matter whether it's the unofficial representation or not, role modeling is a lot of work for 24/7. Everybody and the d/Deaf community is looking up to him. It's not going to be an easy task. He needs to realize that.
I've read your blog several times and you did great! :-)
All the best,
White Ghost
One more thing that I forgot to mention. AFA does NOT represent all of us who are in the Deaf community... please believe me on this. I am aware that their actions reflects on us ~facepalm~ But trust me on this, we are not like them.
I read your blog......I want to share with my thoughts and ask you few questions. You said "AFA crossed the line, in my opinion, during their protest at EDHI last week." It was your opinion because I understand that you used your result as emotion without interpretation of fact. I know you didn't went and saw protesters at your daughter's school but your daughter did. So you believe that is inappropriate for many reasons. You said first there were" aggressive." There is no aggressive going on this school site and none of them went inside of school. None of them were arrested. Yes they protested at the this local school. You said local schools? I believe I missed out another schools which you didn't explain about which another schools. You said "Second, at Moog, (you can see it in the video) they approached the kids." I don't see the link of this video. Can you give me the link about this video? Also you said this: "And lastly, this is one sure-fire way to make sure that parents run as far from the Deaf community as possible." Are you speaking for another hearing parents with deaf children? If I were you and I cannot speak for others because they can speak for themselves. I know you're parent and you can run from Deaf community as possible because you have right to choose. So another thing is "I have said that in real life, the Deaf community has always been welcoming and supportive." This one is really good sign that we make sure that you felt more welcome and supportive from deaf people and I am sure you felt not welcome and support from others, too. You said " She Again, this is the best way to make sure that parents NEVER choose to expose their children to the Deaf community." You don't want expose your child to the Deaf community for your own reasons. You make your choice that I respect and I believe one day your daughter will interact with deaf people or not. Your daughter will be old enough to make her own choices.
So You posted what your daughter said: "So, Miss Kat told me that she saw the protesters outside her school. She said that she asked her teacher why they were so mad. (She said that her teacher said she didn't know.) Miss Kat also said that her principal was scared. (How sad.) And Miss Kat's conclusion was that the protesters were jealous, that they wanted more kids to go to their school instead of her's. She was sad for them."
This message when you posted about your daughter said. Miss Kat's conclusion was your conclusion because you were containing a summing up of the points and a statement of opinion was reached. I have one problem is...they (protesters or what? who are they?) wanted more kids to go to their school instead of her's. Is there another school that they want her to go? I don't see any fact that they want her to go another school. What school are you taking about? Can you help me with this?
Don't you want to raise children who will be manifested as ranters in latter life? Think about it. It makes sense to those who don't rant and just simply agree to remove the agbell's image. Those who could move on and normally don't bark, but they do reserve their concern about that sickening manifestation will bring nowhere in the near future on innocent. Human nature? Can you draw the thinner line of sand? Or thicker? Those who can hear are the ones making the lines repeatedly. Its based on my personal observation. Sorry to say.
I spoke to the people at the protest. I am sure they have it on tape, they were videoing the entire conversation.
Name a single thing that I said that was untrue?
March 10, 2012 3:29 PM
Can you bring this video about entire conversation? Or can you send me the link about this video?
Spiritualwings64,
Gee, you were all over the places, leaving comments and making everyone feel like simpletons.
If you cannot validate parents' feelings and thoughts, you are no good to go.
In this blog post, here's our chance to listen to the parents' responses, feelings and thoughts. What you did was to simplify them.
Moreover, she's Miss Kat's mother and you are reducing her role by questioning her intention by commenting about her daughter's perspective on the protest. Shame on you.
I could have said more, but I'll stop here.
~facepalm~
Dawn,
Well, you're making yourself feel simpleton from me. I am not talking to you because I am straight talking to MissKat's parent. If I do want to talk with you then I will share with you, too. You cannot speak for others. LOL MissKat's Mom did validate to confirm that what she felt and I simply asked her few questions. It is nothing wrong to exchange our thoughts in this. Yes, I truly did listen and read her responses, feelings, and thoughts so you share your thoughts with her, too. It is between you both and it is between me and her. You cannot speak for her if I am reducing her role and she can speak for herself with me. By the way, I appreciate that you brought her blog in our attention.
MKM, you are a good mom. You gave up a lot for your family, relocating your family from Utah to Missouri so that your daughter could go to a good school. You listened to the experts on bilingualism, seeing to that Miss Kat develop language at an early age. You made and still make it work for her. I know in my heart that both of you are communicate a lot, sharing your daughter's insights with the public, etc... I do the same thing with my kids.
I am sorry to see that anyone daring to question your motives, quick to judge you on your decisions.
Don't ever doubt yourself. Of course, some of us might not always agree with you, but we all acknowledge that you are a GREAT mom. Never forget that.
:D
Spiritualwings64,
I shared MKM's blog link because I want people to see/read how parents are feeling about AFA protesting at schools and hospital.
These responses are heartwrenching for people, like myself, who truly understand compassion, unlike you.
You questioned MKM. You are not just questioning her, but the parents who share the similar reactions. That's where I step in and feel the liberty to say my two cents on your part.
MKM, feel free to tell me to stop commenting on this. This woman does not have a good intention and her presence here is questionable.
Dawn,
I am glad that you shared her blog. It is very heart-wrenching for me, too. I truly have compassion because her, your, or others' words brokenness may strike fear in some people in our lives. Compassion is born out of experiencing similar problems we all share for this moment. I can share with you this one... Our pain is never wasted; it brings about compassion that reaches out to other hurting people by saying, "I have been there." We will be a great encouragement to others in the process to understand their compassion and even ours, too. Can I tell you something? You cannot speak for me if I have compassion or not. I understand your compassion and others, too. I don't mind if you step on me or walk all over me. If you want to keep attacking me then go for it. When I am having conversation with someone and please don't walk in the middle of our conversation. If MissKat's Mom feel uncomfortable with me and I can remove my comment or she can remove for me. If she want to share her thought with me and I am willing to listen her same way she will listen mine. I came to understanding the reason for our suffering and having the assurance of the final outcome we will share should make it a little easier to enjoy our lives. I cannot speak for you if you have compassion or not but I knew you do have compassion. Don't make thing so difficult between us. MissKat's mom and I have not start the conversation yet. If you want to stop her having conversation with me then I am okay with this.
Karen,
"Their awareness of media is lacking as well."
You better believe that AFA, DBC, and DHF are damn well aware of media awareness, if nothing else.
Their public announcements, v/blogs, tweets, media articles and videotapes of their protests have been posted for a reason.
To get publicity for their causes...and to heck with the consequences.
And yet some ppl think what these grassroot organizations are doing is harmless, not affecting the Deaf community.
They're doing a great job of torpedoing any positive response to the ASL/bilingualism option and to the positive image that other Deaf ppl have painstakingly built over the years with hearing parents and their families.
Which plays right into some oralists' fantasies. They don't have to lift a finger.
Those organizations need to think twice about their tactics.
Ann_C
I'm not gonna go "a-dilly a-dally" over this hoopa-loopa. However, as a big D person, I certainly can tell you I do -NOT- condone what the AFA did.
I would be mortified if they had approached the school in similar fashion if -MY- kids were going to that school.
Look, don't get me wrong on dissing AFA, but lemme ask you something with application of common sense. Why would the cops show up at the school campus? Simply, the school felt threatened by the AFA's actions considering the kids are extremely vulnerable and clustered at that school campus.
It's no brainer, really...
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be a "brainy" thing to do, either.
>.<
Dawn,
Can I have a "Bitch Slap coupon?" I need one so I can slap AFA.
Oh, I need two more coupons for two other organizations: DBC and DHF.
Despite on our differences, you rock!
*wink*
White Ghost
Ann_C,
You made a good point. Their "heck with consequences" attitude is akin to terrorism, alright.
Plus finlake more or less echos how the majority of the Deaf community feels about the orgs' tatics.
Thx.
spiritualwing64:
Honey, you already brainwashed by Deaf militant group like AFA. Come on, I am not stupid. You are one of those people.
I have to put anonymous because I think AFA group like you will going berserk.
SpiritualWing:
Here is the link you asked for showing the protest outside the schools. You can see at CID the teachers are blocking windows so students can't be seen.
At Moog, you can see that they show the school's address, then approach the teachers and students out there. When a teacher stops the two women trying to go in, the women continue to go through. IT'S A PRIVATE SCHOOL! They posted identifiable pictures of children at a school where their privacy rights should be protected. Then, they laugh as people at the school call the police to protect the safety of the children. So, there's your video proof. Do you need more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jadyed1yk6o
SpititualWing,
Aimee posted the video of them at the schools. They visited at least two of the local oral deaf schools.
As for Miss Kat's conclusions, I simply typed what she said. I didn't discuss the protesters with her at all. I just asked her what happen at school and what happened.
Spiritwing64,
I find your first commentary disturbing because AFA had definitely violated the regulations and laws by trespassing private properties without any permission. For instance, walking up to the Moog School teachers and kids as a stranger is definitely prohibit. In my area, it did happened with stranger coming onto the school properties, the police task force did arrest him in a few days, not right away.
In AFA case, I was rather very surprise that they did not arrest those people at that instantly. I think they had to gather evidences first before they can make a case and present it to the court. There is a good chance that they may be arrested for their unwanted and aggressive behavior. It does not give them any excuse to trespass private properties such as CID and Moog School.
I have shown one of my co-worker from where I work since I work in the medical field. She was not very pleased and definitely thought it was a direct violation of HIPAA to video tape the St. Louis Children Hospital at the CI Center. I think I do agree with her because it is intimidating, aggressive, and inappropriate behavior/approach.
In sum, your commentary does indicate that you do not care about what it does affect other Hearing parents, co-workers, and other people's perception of how this particular aggressive behavior have its affect. If that is the case, that is very egocentric without any respect and/or considerate of others. This does reflect very poor taste as well as does assist the Hearing parents, co-workers, and other people to stay away. In other words, they will shield their deaf/Deaf child(ren) away AFA, DBC, and Deafhood Foundation.
Wait a minute... is it me or is it they are slaves of yesterday?
Egads. I realized my writing is ... bad.
I meant "Wait a minute... is it me or is it they are slaves to yesterday, voluntarily?"
Thank you, WisDeaf @4:40PM, March 12,2012! NAD should read this message what you said and should announce for what AFA did at the Moog Center as for example. I do expect NAD to condemn AFA for what they did at CID, Moog Center and the Children's hospital.
Strangers to appear at any Private or Public schools, no way!
Again, thanks, WisDeaf.
White Ghost
White Ghost,
You are welcome. That will be very nice of NAD to condemn AFA, DBC, and Deafhood Foundation for their actions. Will see if they will announce it or not. Again, unfortunate situation! Thanks.
The last time NAD condemned the actions of AFA rally/protestor goers, there was a backlash by many and some of those are now upset with AFA. They (whatever ya wanna call it) taped over the signage at the Volta Bureau, etc. AFA had a hard time understanding why it wasn't okay. I guess NAD is flippy floppy, they worry too much about losing the support of deaf folks. They're membership starved as it is.
I am of the opinion that the CEO of NAD does not have the freedom to dictate what hats he will wear. His actions will reflect NAD whether he was at the rally as an individual and not as a NAD representative. Howard Rosenblum IS NAD until the day he relinquishes his CEO position.
As for what transpired at St. Louis, if AFA and their supporters don't get what they did was wrong, it just boggles the mind. It's a no brainer that it is NOT OKAY to go inside the hospital or go by the schools. I saw how Ruthie Jordan and another female walked towards the entrance of the school on the video. The body language of their walk says a lot about their attitude which shows NO respect, whatsoever.
Aimee,
I saw this video before. I was looking forward about entire conversation. I mean I was looking the interactive, spontaneous communication between two or more people. Yes, I see few things what you told me. I don't know what is their conversation between them and police officers. I appreciated your time to help me to clarify this.
MissKat's parent,
Okay, I can see that you didn't discuss with her about protesters. You did asked her what happened. I truly do respect that you can discuss to make sure that she is safe. I would to do the same thing with my son, too. I have one last question....You said "Miss Kat's conclusion was that the protesters were jealous, that they wanted more kids to go to their school instead of her's." Can I be honest with you? I never heard that AFA and protesters would ask children to go their school instead of her school. AFA does not have school for them to go. I know AFA did not have conversation with your daughter or other children. This part is very confusing for me. I want you to know that I am curious about this part. I guess that is all for now and I don't need another fact about this part. By the way, I want to say that your daughter is very beautiful same as other children everywhere. Thank you for your time.
So I can see Anonymous and Wisdeaf left comment for me so I am not going to reply you guys and I just came here to discuss with MissKat's parent. I guess that is all for now and you don't need to reply me back because this is my last time to stop by here. Good night!
WisDeaf and Miss Kat,
Would you do the honor to have WisDeaf's excerpts @4:40 PM, March 12, including the hospital's unexpected appearance to your new blog? (Miss Kat's new blog) I would like to have an audience, especially, NAD to read yours. It's vital message.
Candy @ 5:48 PM, March 12, 2012 --
Well, I believe Howard R. has a headache right now. He has to worry about the NAD's membership drive. That's his problem, not ours. Yet, he needs to apologize to the d/Deaf community about his beliefs and being participated the protest/rally for AFA in front of the EHDI conference.
White Ghost
White Ghost and others,
There is a large community outcry about AFA's tactics at St. Louis, especially their appearances at two schools and hospital. We reacted to that. We need to recognize that. The community outcry did not limit with just the hearing parents, but we Deaf people felt the same thing.
On the behalf of Deaf people who disliked what AFA did, we already informed AFA in many ways, through blog, Facebook, vlogs, twitter and others that we did not approve what they did. That should count for something.
I sincerely understood the emotions of hearing parents, especially when it happened at one of kids' school. The feelings had hightened. Please do understand that we, Deaf people felt the same way, too. You're not alone in this.
AFA released another video explaining about what had happened. Our reaction? TOO LATE. They were retracting their steps and at their breaking points.
Moreover, I had an opportunity to talk with one of the NAD representative. He stated that NAD acknowledged what AFA did and they did not approve it. They felt up to this point that the community had already taken care of AFA. I, for one, had encouraged my friends to stop supporting AFA.
That's the best thing about community accountability. We stood up against AFA.
Of course, I wished this had never happened, but it did and it brought us together. We all are here for the same reason - our children.
I'm glad we're given this opportunity to discuss this, to reflect about this and to support each other.
I hope everyone can continue to do what's the best for our children.
All the best.
Miss Kat's is doing the right thing for her daughter. She is playing a central role in her development.
Saw this on FB elsewhere and thought this study would be a good one to have on hand.
http://journals.lww.com/ear-hearing/Abstract/2011/02001/Language_and_Verbal_Reasoning_Skills_in.6.aspx
AFA's latest video doesn't change anything. Ruthie basically said that EHDI must have ASL/Bilingual influence, and that it must be the foundation for all deaf children.
They can't force or make any parent choose ASL/Bilingual first. That's something they are gunning for.
As for the babbidge report, which I kept hearing these folks refer to here and there over time, I finally had the chance to read most of it today, it does not say oralism is a failure.
However the report acknowledge that there are oralism failures. Back in 1965, there were no CI nor were there any digital hearing aids. Oralism is sure to fail if there's not enough hearing ability.
It does not say deaf/hh children should use sign language over oralism.
AFA is totally against CI for all deaf babies. To them, CI is considered Awordism.
As much as I respect parents' choice for their child, I am an educator who believes in ASL/English development for Deaf children.
Kindly allow me to expand more on this.
English: Speaking, listening, reading and writing
ASL: Signing
Instructional approach: Signacy-Literacy-Oracy
We should believe that all Deaf children will be literate, reading and writing.
As for speaking and listening, that comes with other options, such as speech therapy, CI, HA, and more. It is also imperative to understand that speaking and listening skills depend on the child's ability to hear, acquire and learn Spoken English through training or whatosever. I am not against this. My son, one of four children, had residual hearing and I gave him ALL options to learn to speak and to listen until one morning, at age 10, he lost all of his residual hearing. Just like that. At age 14, he continues to love going to his Speech class at school, which I support him. My other 3 children show no interest in that, which is fine with me also. But, all of them are literate. That's the most important thing for them to acquire.
How to reach to that goal is both signacy and oracy approach. That's what I believe. That's my teaching philosophy.
I truly understand that some feel that the other approach is feasible for their child. I respect that fully. I'm just lying out my language development philosophy. Like everyone here says, CHOICES.
This is what I present - my choice.
It all boils down to one thing - working together. Education is not one size fits all. It's a working force. Collaboration.
I am just a trained educator in this field. I choose this field simply because I believe in it. Just like another professional who believe in their work with Deaf children. I just want to be given this opportunity to share what I am doing professionally.
Thank you all...for allowing me to share my field of expertise.
All the best.
Dawn,
If I may, someone from the AFA just made a text video of what they were doing at EHDI, schools, and hospital. They were doing "damage" control, which did not sit well with me because they are well known to be anti-CI and think all deaf/Deaf kids should learn ASL as a primary language in the oral education setting. Also, they "deny" that they cause any problems, which is not correct because why else there would be police cars coming to Moog School and caused a "stir" at the EHDI Conference at the Marriot Hotel.
What does this means? It did violated the "trust" between the Deaf/deaf organizations and the Hearing society. Trust is really an important issue, which does include negiotiation about the useage of ASL, English, and other languages involved. When the trust is broken, what happens? Does it create more difficulty to negiotiation? The answer is yes. AFA, DBC, and DHF did a good job of breaking them.
Since you wanted to collobrate with the Hearing Society (parents) to come up with an agreement(s) of how to educate the child(ren) as the best possibly can, my recommendation (this only reflect from me, not others) is to work within the deaf/Deaf Society/Communities first to see if you and/or others can work together to negiotiate of how to work with the Hearing Society (parents) for the future child(ren). If it is not possible to work together within the deaf/Deaf Communities, how can you and/others gain any trust from the Hearing Society (parents)?
However, if the deaf/Deaf communities are able to work together very well, then there would be a possibility many of you can negiotiate with the Hearing Society (parents) well by gaining trust and have some common grounds since the majority of the Deaf/deaf communities are willingly to work together to achieve the goal.
If I am not making any sense, please shoot my foot! AFA and its affiliations are trying to minimizing what they have done. Again, I am not very pleased because the videos that they had made is worth more than a thousand pictures.
Dawn,
You're the coolest Mom! I fully respect the way you believe in choices. You have allowed your children to make some wise choices. I respect for that.
I have taught my children to make some wise choices. For example, when I put my child into different kind of sports. My child picked the sport she loves the most.
I just saw AFA's latest video on part 2 that made by Ruthie Jordan. Nothing happened. I believe NAD and AFA are having some very difficult corresponding on many serious issues and views.
I agree that education don't fit in one size. We should fortunate that we live in this freedom country so we can have some choices. That's what we don't believe in AFA's philosophy for the optimization on "ASL's first". Period. Trying to "control" on EHDI people and the world to use an "ASL first" policy won't do any good. It's a no-no.
Bummer! I did not get three coupons from you! *wink* Saturday Night Live (SNL) could use your coupon joke. I understand that you don't want any anonymous commenters in your blog. That's okay. I respect you.
All the best,
White Ghost
Dawn,
You're the coolest Mom! You've taught your kids for making some choices. That's great. I respect for what you believe in for the sake of children's wishes.
I know it's a lot of work for teaching kids to make some choices, we all want to make sure our children to be happy for what they wish/want. It won't be easy, you know.
I saw AFA's video from Ruthie Jordan on Part 2. Nothing happened. I believe that NAD is having some very difficult extrapolation on AFA's poor approach in the past and recent events (during the EHDI conference week). History repeats itself.
Anyway, bummer! I did not get three coupons from you! Bummer. Saturday Night Live (SNL) could use your coupon joke. *wink* I understand that you don't want to use any anonymous comments in your blog. I respect your feelings. That's ok.
All the best,
White Ghost
White Ghost,
I just changed the setting. Feel free to leave your comments in my blog.
And, thank you for your kind words.
All the best.
WisDeaf,
You're absolutely right. The trust between Deaf community and Hearing society is shaken, not broken, I believe.
I am sure this goes the same for everyone that it's "utopia" to try to work with everyone to attain ONE goal. But we should try our best though. However, I can speak on the behalf of my former colleagues at Rochester School for the Deaf where I worked that we all worked together nicely. I worked closely with the Spoken English teachers. They were awesome! My point is...the teaching philosophy begins IN THE SCHOOL and that everyone is working together with the parents and children. Now, going outside of the school ground, I do a professional networking with other Deaf programs that share the similar teaching philosophy. We do collaborative work.
What's wrong with that? Nothing, sure, BUT when we attended those IEP meetings, we met other teachers who did not want to listen and/or to learn about our school's teaching philosophy. The meeting sometimes went on for hours. Imagine the parents sitting there listening to this, that, this, and this. I imagined how hard it was on them. We stood on our ground and they stood on their ground. Understandable. The final decision lies with the parents, always. The choice they chose is always respected.
Now, off I go with my own Deaf people and community, I'm constantly and heavily criticized for my belief. I must emphasize that not ALL of them do that. Just those grassroot people, like those AFA and DHF. DBC is now an one-man organization and is diminishing quickly, so I'm not counting on DBC anymore. Well, the community that I'm in KNOWS what I do and remain true to my teaching philosophy.
So, that should NOT deter me from trying to collaborate with parents, teachers and community in general, near or far, Deaf or Hearing. We cannot stay and run in the place until something changes. We gotta run out of the place and reach out to the others. :-)
All the best.
WisDeaf,
I just realized that I did not respond to your comments about AFA and its latest video release.
Nevermind that. Truly. They are at their breaking point and trying to retract steps to save their faces.
Two words: too late.
Hi Dawn,
Thanks.
Hi Dawn/WisDeaf,
Of course, it's too late for AFA to do that, they had to step down for Part 2. NAD is extrapolating on many serious issues with AFA. Hopefully, NAD lost its sponsor with AFA in order to have a good relationship with EHDI for the sake of the D/deaf community and hearing parents of a deaf/hoh child.
White Ghost
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